International Touring / Co-Production in a Changed World

At the peak of the pandemic it was difficult to anticipate what a return to touring would look like, and many companies resumed touring as soon as it became possible. Together, we will discuss the new challenges touring companies are facing and explore what might make a return to touring feasible and financially sustainable.

Quicklinks:

• BaoBao Chen, Small Island Big Song
• Paul Clay, Factory International
• Cindy Hwang, InPulse Creatives, LLC
• Katherine McVicker, Music Works International

What is the 1st touring project you worked on after COVID?

After two years of lockdown, we (Small Island Big Song) hit the road for a 4-month tour in January 2022, when a lot of people were still afraid of touring. I remember when we arrived in the US there were 1.7 million COVID cases a day in the US alone. So, coming from other regions of the world like Taiwan, Madagascar, Mauritius and Australia with really limited cases, deciding to tour the US was a big gamble for us.

We still had people considering dropping out a few days before the flight, because it felt like too big a risk. This is something we had to manage right from the start. Getting everyone on the flight, willing to join the US tour, was challenging. But we managed a successful 4 month tour across the States, then to Europe straight after. We also performed in Taiwan in December, 2022, and last month we went to Australia. So, we actually managed to tour four different continents in the last 12 months.

It was really interesting getting to know the different regulations of these countries. In the US things opened back up quite quickly, whereas Asian countries were some of the last to open up to international visitors. So, there were still COVID regulations we were trying to manage.

Is there something you wish you knew before your 1st show after COVID?

For the US tour I was talking about, we kept feeling that it was quite a gamble, putting all our funding and energy into preparing something that might quickly fall apart. But I think we didn’t realize how much support we would be getting.

We eventually met up with COVID and it circled around the group after 3 months into our US tour. I remember, the first positive case within the group happened in NH, then the protocol was to quarantine for 5 days before leaving with a negative test, so we had to leave them there with a caretaker and push on. We still had shows ahead in MA, VAI and CA.

With each leg more cases appeared, eventually our 12-person touring party went down to just four artists, one tech and me managing it all, with artists and caretakers scattered in various ‘positive camps’, and with our big closing concert in LA coming up!

Our approach was that, we couldn’t deny the audiences the opportunity to connect with these artists, their stories, songs and culture from so far away along with the big picture environmental issues our show confronts. With the presenters' support the show went on, and with the audiences' support closing with standing ovations.

As if it was a film timed to the perfect ending, everyone finished their quarantine, all testing negative, the flights lined up and we all came back together, ending the tour to a wonderful house in LA.

This is a long story, but I really felt our group got closer because of this experience. And I remember at one of the shows, I had to go on stage alone, because the artist who typically accompanied me for the speech got COVID. I explained this to the audience, and I felt really touched by their reaction. I cried that day because the audience really cared for us.

If we didn’t hit the road, just stayed at home fearing that touring is too hard, we would not have experienced any of this support from audiences, from presenters, from each other. I felt grateful and proud that we turned a crisis into a bonding experience.

Have the ways of international touring changed for the better due to the pandemic?

During the 2 years when we were producing the concert that went on tour, we had to navigate how to work remotely, because for our project, almost everyone lives in different regions spread across the islands of the Pacific and Indian Ocean. We have about 10 different artists from 7 different time zones and different wi-fi speeds. During the whole 2 years of quarantine, we kept producing and creating this new performance work, along with a new music album. We had to work out a new way to involve everyone. What we decided to do was every 2 weeks, we had a Zoom meeting with all the artists. We would gather online, talk about the show, about the songs, but also talk about our lives, our families, and our meals. It became a very beautiful space of sharing, having everyone’s company for the whole 2 years’ time.

I think the performance we produced through this process is not something one can do in a couple months’ time, we saw a house being built, kids grew up, seasons changed, and we accompanied each other through difficult times. These inspirations naturally became part of the creation and a strong sense of understanding amongst each other.

The month before the tour started, we worked out a way to do virtual rehearsals through videos, a bit like karaoke. We actually adapt this virtual rehearsal routine for all of our tours now.

What are the opportunities and challenges for touring internationally now?

In terms of opportunities, the past US tour was mainly a residency format at performing arts centers and universities. We had many memorable and profound engagements which included both virtual and in-person engagements. For instance, with the support of Stanford Live, we virtually connected with first nation artists before our arrival to jam and discuss ideas about collaborating on a song for our performance at the Bing Concert Hall. With Penn State, we had various virtual programs including talks on indigenous culture. During APAHM, and an up-cycle instrument-making workshop, which led to a mini concert during our week-long residency on campus. We also had many presenters who requested to screen our documentary as a virtual pre-engagement, which helped build the anticipation of our in-person engagement.

I felt enriched co-curating these virtual programs with the presenters, because we never had such long and deep engagements before COVID. It’s becoming a norm with lots of possibilities because the way we engage with audiences was reshaped and rethought during the pandemic.

In terms of challenges, a lot of the COVID regulations have been taken away. What I’m worried about for the next tour is the extreme weather, because we tour the US a lot during winter. This is the subtext of Small Island Big Song - climate change. What can I bring to this issue as a performing arts producer, creating an extraordinary work with people speaking to this issue, a defining issue of our era. This is why we are working full gusto on our next show with the most respected voices of the ocean to premiere in 2025. We welcome any co-commission interests!

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What is the 1st touring project you worked on after COVID?

It was a piece called Atmospheric Memory by Rafael Lozano-Hemmer, which we presented at a festival in 2019. We made it with partner organizations globally, and the first post-Covid presentation was at the UNC - University of North Carolina in December, 2021. Restrictions had been released here in the UK, but we had terrible trouble getting into the US. We couldn't get work visas for the UK team to get in. So, we sent the UK team to Canada to put the show together with the Canadian artist team. We later brought in some new American staff to assist, and the Canadians and Americans installed the show at UNC.

And then, just to keep life really interesting, it closed just before Christmas in North Carolina, around the 21st of December. This gave us a real problem because although the border was open for Canadians to cross between Canada and the US, it was still a requirement that they take a PCR test both ways. So, if any of the Canadian team members we sent to do the get out on the show closing on the 21st of December had tested positive, they would not have been allowed to go back to Canada for Christmas. We looked at all kinds of ways to solve that problem, and eventually, we did our first major art installation hybrid de-install! The Canadian team worked online, and the American team worked in person, and everyone worked brilliantly together.

Is there something you wish you knew before your 1st show after COVID?

I think the thing I would've loved to learn was that it was going to be impossible to get a US work visa in 2021! The show was in November, and the earliest appointments we could get in the UK for a visa were in April of the following year. We applied in June of 2021, and we got appointments for April 2022 for a show opening in November 2021. So, it would have been good to know that the US visa system was taking more than a little while to catch up.

One of the positive things that has been happening here in the UK is that touring companies and the Arts Council have been sharing experiences post Brexit and Pandemic, to learn lessons and share experiences as a group.

By sharing experiences, people don't have to learn lessons multiple times, and everyone can benefit from someone else's experience. This network session has been very useful and happens every couple of months. It started as a monthly event, but now it occurs less frequently as things are settling down.

Have the ways of international touring changed for the better due to the pandemic?

We have started flying fewer people and are working in partnership with organizations when we travel our work. Whenever we travel, we try to cover as many points as possible. For instance, in February, I was out of the country for about a month, I spent time with current and potential partners in the Middle East, I went from there to Hong Kong because we had a new show opening there. Then from Hong Kong I went to Taiwan to deliver some international producer training and stayed on to meet with partner organizations. Instead of traveling back home and then flying out again, we consolidated all these trips into one package and made the most out of it.

Most of the work that we've done historically has been in collaboration with partner organizations around the world. These co-investors have supported our work, and we have presented it back to them. I think there have been two or three big takeaways for us during the COVID-19 pandemic:

Firstly, people are now more focused on the environment and are actively seeking ways to reduce their carbon footprints when traveling. Secondly, the idea of partnership has become even more crucial, and people want to establish closer relationships with organizations like ours.

This development aligns with our core values and objectives. We are engaging in more sensible conversations globally with other partner organizations. For example, we recently signed an MOU with Serendipity Arts Festival, which is expanding into New Delhi for a new building and festival, much like ourselves. We are also in the process of signing a similar agreement with TPAC in Taipei, which is also constructing a new building. Additionally, we're having ongoing conversations with other organizations, such as PHI Contemporary in Montréal, which is also expanding into a new building. This approach allows us to learn and share work in a connected way, which is incredibly exciting for the future.

What are the opportunities and challenges for touring internationally now?

Yeah, I can think of some challenges. We’re just reaching a point where the world is reopening properly, and having recently been out in Taiwan and Hong Kong, I noticed that the pace of change in that part of the world and in China has been slower and more cautious than in the UK. This has hindered touring and presentation work. Additionally, the huge increase in energy prices, the ongoing credit crisis, and conflict in Europe have made shipping and moving things around the world much more expensive, making it more challenging for presenters.

The current situation has resulted in people having to rethink how they make and tour their work.

However, one of the great things about working in this industry is that people tend to focus on finding solutions rather than dwelling on problems. The outcome is always about how we can make it work because we're obviously not going to stop doing it.

So, how do we make it work knowing what we know now? Where are the short cuts? How and where can we make this work? What does the future look like for this? And that's really exciting, when every problem is an opportunity.

Thank you so much, and as we all look forward to the Manchester 2023 ISPA Congress this June, is there anything else you’d like to add?

I can tell you that Manchester is fantastic in June and July, and the sun shines all the time. Ok, the bit about the sunshine might be a slight exaggeration, but it is a great, vibrant city. There's so much happening during that period, with the Factory opening around the same time as the festival, which follows directly on from ISPA. The energy and buzz in the city are always amazing during this time of year. It would be criminal to miss out on what I believe will be an extraordinary moment in time.

See you in Manchester!

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What is the 1st touring project you worked on after COVID?

The 1st touring project I worked on was bringing Joshua Bell to Ithra Theater. At that time, I wasn’t the music programmer at Ithra yet. I was just an agent trying to bring Joshua to perform. He was supposed to come in March, 2020, and we rescheduled it a couple of times. We were finally able to settle the date in the end on January, 2022. That was the very first touring project right out of the pandemic and I was with him for it. It was a nice way to get back into this idea of touring with just 2 performances.

But even the preparation for just that was a little nerve wracking, because there’s still all these uncertainties and we’re still in the middle of the pandemic. My biggest concern was with all the transits and I was fearful that he and his pianists would get COVID. Saudi was still quite strict at that moment, requiring vaccinations and COVID tests, and the theater was very strict as well. So, if you test positive, then they would have to cancel the whole thing. Joshua wanted to make a stop in Dubai and I had to go pick him up. I felt like I was picking up a delicate package and making sure it arrived safely and was safely delivered back home.

Is there something you wish you knew before your 1st show after COVID?

I think we all wish we knew about COVID before it happened.

But with the pandemic, I think we need to think more about how much we can protect our artists. What are some stricter measures that we can put into place to protect the artists, and for the venues, programmers, and festivals to protect themselves?

Some of these systems in place were quite outdated, but we just kept pushing along using the same models and formats. And I think sticking to these outdated systems were really hard during the pandemic. Looking back, there were definitely things we could have done better and planned much further out.

And to be honest, even after the pandemic, this issue remains one of those conversations we keep having, but I don’t think people’s behaviors have changed that much.

Have the ways of international touring changed for the better due to the pandemic?

It certainly has changed. Is it changing for the better? I'm not sure. I do think that everyone is still trying to recuperate and digest. I think the way the pandemic hit was like a wave and everything comes down to individual governments' policies of what can and cannot be done.

For example, places in Asia were the last to open up. They were the first to take the measures to make sure everyone was safe. And because of all these safety measures, they were also the last to open up, which impacted all of the tours.

If you’re looking from the perspective of artists trying to tour out to Asia, all the presenters, promoters and festivals are now just rescheduling all the cancellations. Some of the conversations I’ve had are already about scheduling programming for 2025!

Because they’ve had all these programming commitments from before to digest. So,  everyone’s readiness to do things is very different from region to region, country to country, because of how the government has handled the pandemic and its policies.

Because of all these differences, we don’t have a unified system and everyone’s steps and procedures are going to be different. So, I’m not sure if better is the right word to describe the change. It feels more like we’re still just trying to recover and regain and it is going to take a little longer.

I do think it also comes down to funding. Funding plays a big part in what presenters can present moving forward.

For example, in America we rely heavily on the development department to fundraise and to secure government grants. They’ve bled a lot during the pandemic, and the government subsidies are starting to run out. I was talking to a US presenter recently who had a commissioning program and they said that entire program was gone because they don’t have the financial capacity anymore due to the pandemic.

Whereas in other parts of the world, like in Asia and Middle East, everyone shut down for 2 solid years, but no one lost their jobs because these organizations are state-owned. For them, it’s not about making the money because these people are all government employees. So even if the budgets have shrunk, the projects will continue to go on; the commissioning will continue.

So, I think we will see a lot of local projects in the two or three upcoming seasons because of the basis of funding. I think it’s an opportunity for less developed markets to really develop and support their own artistic community, whereas they were previously focused on bringing in big international names.

Audiences are still going to crave international exchange because it is an important part of a healthy ecosystem, but these changes allows growth for local artist communities. We are probably going to see better projects coming out of certain parts of the marketplace that we’ve never seen before.

What are the opportunities and challenges for touring internationally now?

Opportunities are, of course, new marketplaces. I think there’s a huge shift, especially sitting where I am. Everyone is focusing on the Middle East, specifically the GCC region and Saudi Arabia because these countries are opening up tremendously quickly and it’s a pace you don’t see anywhere else. So, everyone is bombarding into this marketplace.

There are lots of international touring opportunities to create and to collaborate in areas and places that people may never have thought about before.

The biggest challenge I think is understanding a marketplace - how to move artists across borders safely and the cost. The cost hasn’t really come down, especially for companies that require freighting. I think making international tours financially viable remains challenging. Moving everything around is just not as cost-efficient as it was during the earlier stages of the reopening.

Will you be joining ISPA in Manchester?

Yes, I’ve already registered! I look forward to visiting Manchester for the 1st time! I’m staying over the weekend to join the Manchester International Festival, visit the Yayoi Kusama exhibit, and maybe catch a football game!

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What is the 1st touring project you worked on after COVID?

Well, I can tell you that very easily because we were probably the only American agency that had an artist tour in October, 2021. We had a tour for a talented piano player named Emmet Cohen. We were able to rearrange the routing so that he could travel by ground and he didn't have to go through all the airports. There were a couple of long car rides, but basically that avoided the need for him to get tested every single day. And it was a huge success because people really wanted to go out and see shows, and there weren’t many opportunities available. I thought that was kind of a victory and it lasted for almost four weeks.

Is there something you'd like to share with the companies that are resuming touring after COVID?

During COVID, I realized that we really can't just have all of our revenue in the touring part of our company. It caused us to diversify into other things. I wrote a course called “Anyone Can Book a Gig”, which was to help artists become more able to book their own shows, to understand the industry better and to advocate for themselves, and I would not have had time to write that if I had been doing our usual booking of over 40 artists.

Another thing we did was to look at territories outside of Europe to develop further. I've been working in Africa for over 25 years and recently starting working in Latin America. One of the biggest problems with working in places like Africa or Latin America is the lack of infrastructure.

So, we used the time to create two cultural arts networks to share information, create cultural exchange opportunities, and to expand possibilities for professional development. That was another positive that came out of that because we had the time to build communication with cultural professionals on both continents.

We're doing some great work now in Africa and Latin America.

I also think the pandemic caused us to reflect on what is it that what we do, who we are and what our value is. I believe our value is our experience, our knowledge and the talent of the people that we work with and those at MWI. We are trying to find new ways to offer our knowledge to people that isn't just based on a transaction, meaning booking a show.

It's more about developing communication with promoters, so that people can collaborate with each other, share resources and create new opportunities – be they education, professional development, marketing resources or the creation of communities of like-minded cultural stakeholders.

When I first started working in the industry in 1987, it was a very vertical model. The industry is not like that anymore. We have to adapt to the current reality of the music business that now includes new technologies, expansive streaming platforms,    and social media vehicles that help artists get their music out to a diversified market and grow their careers themselves. Artists also have to advocate for themselves because it's not always easy to get professionals to take you on when you're first starting out. Since we had time to think about all of these things during COVID, it better prepared us to come back to the live performance industry with better understanding of how to make a more sustainable ecosystem for our company and for our clients.

Have the ways of international touring changed for the better due to the pandemic?

I think touring has changed for the better in that we were all affected financially by COVID. People have to understand the impact of the pandemic across the entire industry. Artists and managers tend to think that things stay the same. And so, if we got paid $30,000 before the pandemic, why can't we still get that money? They have to understand the business ecosystem of culture. It's not just the artists who lost money, it's not just the agencies. There are a lot of festivals and promoters who don't exist anymore.

We have to think more in terms of working in partnership with people, especially in the jazz industry and the non-commercial cultural arts field because they are not just based on ticket sales. Certainly, the finances have to work for everybody, but you also have to think deeper about how you go about making sustainable tours for people.

And it's about asking, you know, what is the ticket price that people can afford to pay now? What is the capacity that we should be looking at?

We want to build sustainable models with promoters so when we book an artist, it is a win-win for both sides. So, I think it's caused the dialogue between the agent and the promoter to open up a bit and to say "we understand what you're doing, please understand things from our side and see how we can find a situation that works for both sides." It requires a lot more negotiation, a lot more understanding and time.

I used to say that the best thing that could happen in the jazz industry would be for me to be a promoter for a month and for someone to be an agent for a month so both sides can understand, what the dynamics are. The Europe Jazz Network does not allow agents to join the Europe Jazz network and I always thought, that's crazy because you're eliminating half of the discussion.

What are the opportunities and challenges for touring internationally now?

I think the opportunities are that there's been a real change in the way people consume culture and decide how they want to spend their money. This requires the agent to talk more with a promoter about what will work for their season, festival or series and whether we have those artists that can fit an existing audience or expand a new demographic. We can also send content from our artists to help the promoter to test the market first with a new idea or genre. People don't want to sit and stare at a small screen for streaming anymore, but it still going to be a tool and one that can be used strategically. So, it involves managing risk and it's working together from the marketing side. If you're getting public money from a government, it's really your responsibility to serve all aspects of your community. It's really kind of opened up the dialogue from my perspective.

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